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TPTB >>>> TPTW
02-10-2011, 06:13 PM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2011 06:16 PM by abe.)
Post: #1
TPTB >>>> TPTW
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Listened to many of the Cliff High youtube interviews and have always been interested in what he called; TPTB.

Perhaps some kind of alien or perhaps even reptilian beings who are really running the show behind the scenes.

Even more interesting are his more recent interviews where he believes TPTB are now TPTW and TPTW are running scared and perhaps even trying to bug out in their flying saucers.

In my own mind I have always thought there was TPTB running the show behind the scenes.

This however, is a purely biblical conviction.

Read this carefully:

Ephesians 6:10-12
Finally, go on acquiring power in [the] Lord and in the mightiness of his strength. 11 Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; 12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.


The Apostle Paul was also convinced that his real struggle was not against other human beings.

His fight was against non-human TPTB.

Another purely biblical conviction is that TPTB would eventually reach an appointed, unavoidable and recognizable time where they would be held accountable and suffer truly horrific consequences.

TPTB would become terrified.

Consider this:

Matthew 8:28-29
When he got to the other side, into the country of the Gad·a·renes´, there met him two demon-possessed men coming out from among the memorial tombs, unusually fierce, so that nobody had the courage to pass by on that road. 29 And, look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?


In my opinion TPTB have seen the signs that indicate that it is indeed very close to; "the appointed time".


regards

abe
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02-10-2011, 08:32 PM
Post: #2
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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I like how you equate religion and aliens when the bible is a forgery of the sumerian texts that say we were made by them. I'm completely comfortable with that by the way, I don't understand how Christians call me crazy when I say we were a genetically engineered race made by a race from another planet, that describe in great detail their trial and error process involving DNA, and how most everything in the old testament is a direct copy of their writings, but they have no problem with burning bushes, magical jewish zombies that walk on water and magical rib-women...faith is indeed a powerful animal.

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

Faith: noun-1. basis for all insanity in human history; 2. The absence of critical thought.
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02-10-2011, 08:39 PM
Post: #3
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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(02-10-2011 08:32 PM)13vocals Wrote:  I like how you equate religion and aliens when the bible is a forgery of the sumerian texts that say we were made by them. I'm completely comfortable with that by the way, I don't understand how Christians call me crazy when I say we were a genetically engineered race made by a race from another planet, that describe in great detail their trial and error process involving DNA, and how most everything in the old testament is a direct copy of their writings, but they have no problem with burning bushes, magical jewish zombies that walk on water and magical rib-women...faith is indeed a powerful animal.

Couldn't have said it better !:)

~The beginning of wisdom is the awe of God ~" Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein~

>>> WE monitor YOU<<<

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02-10-2011, 08:58 PM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2011 09:03 PM by abe.)
Post: #4
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13Vocals,

That is exactly how I feel.

Amazing!

I don't see why a bunch of people who are convinced the world is being run by alien reptilians and that a man can predict the future by using a lexicon of words to measure what people say could ever point their finger at a plain old bible believing Christian.

There are many people here who believe there is going to soon be a big game change.

So do I.

I don't think the bible brings any doubt to what the ancient Sumerians wrote about.

I personally think the bible goes well beyond the ancient Sumerian writings to the point where a Christian can measure what is happening right now and know what to really do.

In regard to DNA, I think that is exactly what King David was talking about in this scripture:

Psalm 139:13-16

13 For you yourself produced my kidneys;
You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother.

14 I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made.
Your works are wonderful,
As my soul is very well aware.

15 My bones were not hidden from you
When I was made in secret,
When I was woven in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Your eyes saw even the embryo of me,
And in your book all its parts were down in writing,
As regards the days when they were formed
And there was not yet one among them.



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abe
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02-10-2011, 09:03 PM
Post: #5
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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I don't see how anyone that studies history can take it word for word in the first place, considering how many times it's been changed, i.e. Emperor Constantine, the Catholic Church, etc. (whoa buddy, don't get me started on the catholic church) Anyone see when Sarah Silverman said she had a way to end world hunger and poverty? Sell the Vatican! She's so funny. Seriously though, the Vatican is straight evil. If you're a Catholic...why?

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

Faith: noun-1. basis for all insanity in human history; 2. The absence of critical thought.
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02-10-2011, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2011 09:23 PM by abe.)
Post: #6
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(02-10-2011 09:03 PM)13vocals Wrote:  I don't see how anyone that studies history can take it word for word in the first place, considering how many times it's been changed, i.e. Emperor Constantine, the Catholic Church, etc. (whoa buddy, don't get me started on the catholic church) Anyone see when Sarah Silverman said she had a way to end world hunger and poverty? Sell the Vatican! She's so funny. Seriously though, the Vatican is straight evil. If you're a Catholic...why?

No. I am not Catholic.

The inquisition pretty much rules that out for me.

I will agree however, that Christianity is evil.

The Apostle Paul explained how spectacular Satan's success would be in regard to undermining Christianity immediately before Jesus Christ returns.

2nd Thessalonians 2

2 However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of YOU 2 not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is here.
3 Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do YOU not remember that, while I was yet with YOU, I used to tell YOU these things?
6 And so now YOU know the thing that acts as a restraint, with a view to his being revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.



So the fact you seem to agree that Christianity is evil does give me some comfort.


I doubt however, that you will find too many Christians who would agree with you, .......... or me.


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abe
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02-10-2011, 10:53 PM
Post: #7
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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All religions are evil, all they do is separate people and cause problems.

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

Faith: noun-1. basis for all insanity in human history; 2. The absence of critical thought.
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02-11-2011, 12:05 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2011 12:09 AM by abe.)
Post: #8
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(02-10-2011 10:53 PM)13vocals Wrote:  All religions are evil, all they do is separate people and cause problems.

I really did not want to get into a good guy, bad guy debate.

Hoping to show how the bible actually parallels much of what many posters here believe is "Realist News" in a very profound way.

What the bible said would happen is really happening!

For instance, think about the bird and fish kills that have recently happened and compare it to this bible prophecy:


Hosea 4:2-3
There are the pronouncing of curses and practicing of deception and murdering and stealing and committing of adultery that have broken forth, and acts of bloodshed have touched other acts of bloodshed. 3 That is why the land will mourn and every inhabitant in it will have to fade away with the wild beast of the field and with the flying creature of the heavens, and even the fishes of the sea themselves will be gathered [in death].


Or JP Morgan trying to buy up the gold, silver and other commodities.

Ezekiel 38:13
“Is it to get a big spoil that you are coming in? Is it to do much plundering that you have congregated your congregation, in order to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to get a very great spoil?”’


People get excited about a web bot hit.

I get just as excited when there is a bible hit.



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abe
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02-11-2011, 12:06 AM
Post: #9
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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we're all entitled to our opinions and i appreciate joe for allowing us to express them. that being said, what most of you have said on this post is simply that - opinion. and you're wrong. christianity is not evil. it's MAN that is evil and who corrupts religion, regardless of sect or denomination. the God of the Bible is love, peace, and truth. Don't take what man has done to His Word or His Church and fault Him. all the shady televangelists and the serpents at the Vatican/Catholic church are NOT representatives for Jesus Christ. oh, and one more thing, whether or not the sumerian texts were written before or after the Torah has nothing to do with which one is right or wrong. God said what He said to the prophets and the Bible is without error in its original text. the sumerian texts were given to the people by fallen angels and or demons and just b/c they may have been written first doesn't mean a damn thing b/c they are wrong. while there are some truths there the only forgery is with sumerian texts, being as they are a forgery of God's Word, regardless of whether or not they were written first. we came from aliens from another galaxy that used their own dna with that of apes to make a slave race to mine gold? lol that's absurd. and if you do your research you will find that sitchin had no qualifications to interpret the texts and most educated linguists who have a clue will attest to that. start following God and not man or you will be doomed to perish the coming judgment. "Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that I am LORD." and if you are reading this you WILL do just that, hopefully as you enter the kingdom of heaven and not hell.
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02-11-2011, 12:16 AM
Post: #10
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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(02-11-2011 12:06 AM)Guest Wrote:  we're all entitled to our opinions and i appreciate joe for allowing us to express them. that being said, what most of you have said on this post is simply that - opinion. and you're wrong. christianity is not evil. it's MAN that is evil and who corrupts religion, regardless of sect or denomination. the God of the Bible is love, peace, and truth. Don't take what man has done to His Word or His Church and fault Him. all the shady televangelists and the serpents at the Vatican/Catholic church are NOT representatives for Jesus Christ. oh, and one more thing, whether or not the sumerian texts were written before or after the Torah has nothing to do with which one is right or wrong. God said what He said to the prophets and the Bible is without error in its original text. the sumerian texts were given to the people by fallen angels and or demons and just b/c they may have been written first doesn't mean a damn thing b/c they are wrong. while there are some truths there the only forgery is with sumerian texts, being as they are a forgery of God's Word, regardless of whether or not they were written first. we came from aliens from another galaxy that used their own dna with that of apes to make a slave race to mine gold? lol that's absurd. and if you do your research you will find that sitchin had no qualifications to interpret the texts and most educated linguists who have a clue will attest to that. start following God and not man or you will be doomed to perish the coming judgment. "Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that I am LORD." and if you are reading this you WILL do just that, hopefully as you enter the kingdom of heaven and not hell.

I hope you understand that when I say Christianity is evil I don't mean Jesus Christ or God is evil.

I mean the Christian entity on this planet has been undermined by a non-human entity referred to as Satan in the bible.

Completely fulfilling what the bible prophecied!

Christianity is evil.


abe
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02-11-2011, 03:13 AM
Post: #11
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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Once again, you can't say that those writings are obsurd and follow a doctrine that says eat my flesh and drink my blood, and I never said christianity was evil, I said religion was. There is no basis of proof of anything in the bible, or the koran, or any religious text. Even christians fight about who's right and wrong, how many different sects of christianity exist today? you can't count them on your hands, I promise. And in genesis, it says in every version, that WE created man in OUR likeness, not mine. And if you bring up the trinity, then you denounce christianity as monotheistic. The contradictions and arguments can go on and on, so I'll close with this: If you took it away and replaced it with global brotherhood under one god, you'd lose 99.9% of division and hate.

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

Faith: noun-1. basis for all insanity in human history; 2. The absence of critical thought.
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02-11-2011, 06:45 AM
Post: #12
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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the question is though what "god" would the globalists revere? and although Christianity is observed as a monotheistic religion despite the trinity doctrine, God, Himself says "let us make them in OUR image". many will argue that He is speaking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. However, one should consider also that He says there are no other "gods" like Me. This would indicate that there are other "gods", but that YHWH is the supreme deity among them...
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02-11-2011, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2011 10:08 AM by abe.)
Post: #13
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(02-11-2011 03:13 AM)13vocals Wrote:  Once again, you can't say that those writings are obsurd and follow a doctrine that says eat my flesh and drink my blood, and I never said christianity was evil, I said religion was. There is no basis of proof of anything in the bible, or the koran, or any religious text. Even christians fight about who's right and wrong, how many different sects of christianity exist today? you can't count them on your hands, I promise. And in genesis, it says in every version, that WE created man in OUR likeness, not mine. And if you bring up the trinity, then you denounce christianity as monotheistic. The contradictions and arguments can go on and on, so I'll close with this: If you took it away and replaced it with global brotherhood under one god, you'd lose 99.9% of division and hate.



Yep, Christianity is in a terrible state.

Fragmented, hypocritical, divided.

I see very few Christians obeying Jesus Christ.

But hey, the bible does say that Christianity would be undermined by Satan immediately before Jesus Christ returns.

So just as many posters here say; "hey, thats a web bot hit!" I also say; "thats a bible hit".

So if Jesus Christs kingdom, Christianity has been thoroughly undermined immediately before he returns then what is he going to do about it when he does return?

Jesus Christ himself answered that question:

Matthew 13:39-42
The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be.

I guarantee however, that you won't find any pastors or ministers teaching this from their pulpits.

It is also interesting that Jesus Christ is going to use non-human extraterrestrial beings to accomplish this.

Have you seen those videos of massive fleets of UFO's flying over different cities?

Or the NASA videos which show enormous UFO's scattered all around the earth?

I personally think there is a UFO non-disclosure because TPTW don't want anyone to put 2 + 2 together.


Many people including Clif High believe they can see alien wars happening all around the earth through their night vision goggles.

I personally think TPTW are indeed trying to bug out but they cannot leave.

They are being held captive in the vicinity of the earth.


Is there bible support for an alien war?

Absolutely!


Revelation 12:7-9
And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.


I think TPTW are terrified and want to leave.

But they cannot.


So I count the alien wars as a bible hit!


What the bible said would happen is really happening!

In my opinion, that is the conclusion TPTW desperately want to stop people from reaching.


They don't want you to think its really happening!

and they seem to be very succesfull at that.


Regards


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02-11-2011, 10:40 AM
Post: #14
RE: TPTB >>>> TPTW
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In regards to aliens/UFO's and the Bible, I think you should watch this 20min vid!! For me it pretty well sums up alot of it!


As with anything truly real and important, the reality is, that it is all very complex but fits together like strands of a spider-web. It's funny how I see everyone here (no matter if opinions clash) all having a seperate piece of the puzzle, and when you have a lot of the pieces you begin to see the picture.

Man, I've been studying this for over 10 years now. Pretty much hard-core everyday, and I can only tell you my own honest opinion. Abe you are very spot on with your Biblical discernments and 13vocals, you are also right in declaring the hypocrisy of 'christian' doctrine. Real Christianity doesn't come from Catholicism.

Constantine established the Catholic Church in 315AD to 'merge' the 'warring' pagans and original christians, ie the followers of the true words of Jesus Christ. This made the Vatican numero uno. So from this the Vatican and it's Catholic ways are a blasphemy to the original true doctrine that was taught by Jesus. And this true Word has been corrupted ever since!

Now regarding 'in-fighting' between christian methodologies, this is also true due to mis-interpretation of scriptures, alongside personal bias towards certain 'agendas' within the church, ie, stating when the rapture will occur etc, al. This also coincides with the 'various' versions of the Bible, whether it is the Good News Bible, NIV version etc, but the most authentic version that has stood through the sands of time, is the King James Version. If this wasn't corrupted by TPTB/TPTW then things would be a little bit easier, re: scripture.

As I said before, there are MANY strands to the truth and though this is an important strand it is still only one part. This is why we are here on this forum. To share knowledge and spread truths and hopefully arrive at the real, true discernments of the hows and whys that we long for.

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02-11-2011, 11:34 AM
Post: #15
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(02-10-2011 08:32 PM)13vocals Wrote:  I like how you equate religion and aliens when the bible is a forgery of the sumerian texts that say we were made by them. I'm completely comfortable with that by the way, I don't understand how Christians call me crazy when I say we were a genetically engineered race made by a race from another planet, that describe in great detail their trial and error process involving DNA, and how most everything in the old testament is a direct copy of their writings, but they have no problem with burning bushes, magical jewish zombies that walk on water and magical rib-women...faith is indeed a powerful animal.

You're right. All of the major stories in the bible came directly from the Sumerians. What is great is that they were written on stone tablets which can be dated back thousands of years. Long before the new tstament and even more important, longer than the old testament. Also before Paganism, etc. This is one of the many reasons why I cannot attach myself to any religion. Knowing that the Caothic church has sent out crusaders many times over the last 2000+ years to destroy artifacts just like the Sumerian texts as well as forcefully convert people to their religion, there is no way that I can trust anything that comes from religion. I just cannot do it. After all the recent years of research which led me to where I am today, My mind will not allow it no matter how hard I wanted to try. Having said that, if there is some God/Jesus/Mary being out there and can prove to me they exist, I'll become a follower tomorrow. People who say "well that's why you have to have faith" are telling me, "you have to believe in something that does not appear to exist and cannot and has not been proven to exist, but believe in it anyways."

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02-11-2011, 12:04 PM
Post: #16
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Very happy to see so many cracking the bible code so to speak.. i have looked upon this subject for a long time and Sumerian text's and Mayan as well are "key information" as (Alex jones) would have put it.. it seems that humankind's history is deeply distorted by the same people that have the greed for global control and the same people have deceived us for probably 1000's of year's... with a little bit of help from somebody or some buddies..

Make sure you have/can make clean water and lasting food's
and if you can afford get some silver and do this NOW!

SWE.GROUND.CREW i think we are getting close now.
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02-11-2011, 12:09 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2011 12:11 PM by JimmyProphet.)
Post: #17
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(02-11-2011 11:34 AM)Jsnip4 Wrote:  
(02-10-2011 08:32 PM)13vocals Wrote:  I like how you equate religion and aliens when the bible is a forgery of the sumerian texts that say we were made by them. I'm completely comfortable with that by the way, I don't understand how Christians call me crazy when I say we were a genetically engineered race made by a race from another planet, that describe in great detail their trial and error process involving DNA, and how most everything in the old testament is a direct copy of their writings, but they have no problem with burning bushes, magical jewish zombies that walk on water and magical rib-women...faith is indeed a powerful animal.

You're right. All of the major stories in the bible came directly from the Sumerians. What is great is that they were written on stone tablets which can be dated back thousands of years. Long before the new tstament and even more important, longer than the old testament. Also before Paganism, etc. This is one of the many reasons why I cannot attach myself to any religion. Knowing that the Caothic church has sent out crusaders many times over the last 2000+ years to destroy artifacts just like the Sumerian texts as well as forcefully convert people to their religion, there is no way that I can trust anything that comes from religion. I just cannot do it. After all the recent years of research which led me to where I am today, My mind will not allow it no matter how hard I wanted to try. Having said that, if there is some God/Jesus/Mary being out there and can prove to me they exist, I'll become a follower tomorrow. People who say "well that's why you have to have faith" are telling me, "you have to believe in something that does not appear to exist and cannot and has not been proven to exist, but believe in it anyways."

Then again, it's like the atom or the proton. You cannot see it, but you know it exists! How? Personally witnessing it? Or because some scientist in a lab ran some tests and there was some evidence of it? Then it's just speculative. Or the existence of black holes? You know it exists because someone drew an image of what they think represents it? So this becomes fact?

Again, I'm not arguing with anyone, just showing that ALL things have to be personally 'felt' for it to be of any worth. But to dismiss ANY idea, out of sheer spite, because of a certain discourse or prejudice against whatever religion, does seem abit mad. Seeing isn't always believing. Ask a blind man! ;)

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02-11-2011, 12:22 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2011 12:47 PM by abe.)
Post: #18
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(02-11-2011 11:34 AM)Jsnip4 Wrote:  People who say "well that's why you have to have faith" are telling me, "you have to believe in something that does not appear to exist and cannot and has not been proven to exist, but believe in it anyways."


Well, Clif High says that TPTB are likely a behind the scenes alien creature with a reptilian mind and features, who are controlling what we actually see happening.

Yet, you spend a lot of your time supporting his web bot hits.

Understand, that Clif High is asking you to; "have faith and to believe in something that does not appear to exist and cannot and has not been proven to exist, but believe in it anyways."

At the same time I also believe there is a multitude of non-human aliens who are indeed effecting what we perceive as reality.

That belief is taken from and supported by the bible.

Are they reptilian?

Well, the bible does several times liken Satan to a dragon or a serpent, so I find no reason to argue with Clif Highs viewpoint that TPTW are reptilian.

You believe Clif High.

I believe the bible.


I don't see the difference.

Do you see the difference?

What is the difference?


Sounds like an old laundry detergent commercial.


Regards

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02-11-2011, 06:18 PM
Post: #19
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I would never follow any god that ruled by fear, or forced me to bow. My idea of god is as the centerpoint of all consciousness in the universe, and we are tentacles of that same consciousness reaching out to gather new, individual, unique experiences, and THAT is what makes all life special. We evolve when that conscious level has collected enough new information and we are ready to adapt to a new level based upon our conscious needs and readiness. Think of it like a video game, you get enough experience, your species evolves to the next level. Science shows us this through the evolutionary process, a lifeform needs legs, it reaches that next level and gets them, this is why the Mayan "calendar" ends, because we will no longer need time.

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

Faith: noun-1. basis for all insanity in human history; 2. The absence of critical thought.
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02-11-2011, 06:38 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2011 06:42 PM by abe.)
Post: #20
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(02-11-2011 06:18 PM)13vocals Wrote:  I would never follow any god that ruled by fear, or forced me to bow. My idea of god is as the centerpoint of all consciousness in the universe, and we are tentacles of that same consciousness reaching out to gather new, individual, unique experiences, and THAT is what makes all life special. We evolve when that conscious level has collected enough new information and we are ready to adapt to a new level based upon our conscious needs and readiness. Think of it like a video game, you get enough experience, your species evolves to the next level. Science shows us this through the evolutionary process, a lifeform needs legs, it reaches that next level and gets them, this is why the Mayan "calendar" ends, because we will no longer need time.


Wow!

Evolving to the next level.

That is pretty much the way the Apostle Paul felt it was going to happen too!

Read carefully:

1 Corinthians 15:50-52
However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet.


The Apostle Paul felt a very similar way about God also except that he believed it was founded in love.

He figured that every family had roots (kinda like tentacles) to the same God.

Ephesians 3:14-21
On account of this I bend my knees to the Father, 15 to whom every family in heaven and on earth owes its name, 16 to the end that he may grant YOU according to the riches of his glory to be made mighty in the man YOU are inside with power through his spirit, 17 to have the Christ dwell through [YOUR] faith in YOUR hearts with love; that YOU may be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that YOU may be thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.
20 Now to the one who can, according to his power which is operating in us, do more than superabundantly beyond all the things we ask or conceive, 21 to him be the glory by means of the congregation and by means of Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.



If you came to those conclusions and beliefs in your post above all by yourself without reading the bible then I am really impressed!


Regards


abe
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